When did Harry Greb go blind?

How did he go blind?

Who did it?

Which fight?

Was It cumulative fight damage?

 

Kid Norfolk--------Capt. Bob Roper--------Jeff Smith--

 

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1921

Aug 29 .....Kid Norfolk vs. Harry Greb .......Pittsburgh

Atlantic City, N.J., Oct 26.1926 - Dr. Carl S. McGivern, personal physician for Harry Greb, former middleweight and light-heavyweight champion boxer, who died here following an operation last friday, today broke a five-year silence and issued a statement to the effect that Greb had been stone blind in his right eye for that length of time and had carried a glass eye since August of this year. His formal statement follows: "Harry Greb was made blind by a blow on his right eye during a fight with Kid Norfolk, negro heavyweight, in New York City in 1921.

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"It was in 1921 that tough Kid Norfolk rammed a thumb into Greb's eye. The next day Greb complained of seeing lights of many colors. They were the last things he'd ever see with the injure eye. He had suffered a detached retina, did nothing about it, and lost half his sight."

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***EDITORS NOTE: Harry Greb never took time off of boxing after this Kid Norfolk fight. He continued his regular boxing schedule and fought Chuck Wiggins 6 days later in Virginia. He continued the rest of the year as scheduled. Does that sound like someone who recieved a detached retina? On the otherhand, a retinal "tear" causes the person to see flashes of light that Greb is documented as experiening. It sometimes takes days, weeks, months or years for a "retinal tear" to develop into a full "retinal detachment". These signs can occur gradually as the retina pulls away from the supportive tissue. In my opinion, the Kid Norfolk fight was the initial trauma that precipitates retinal detachment.

 

1922

Feb 20--Jeff Smith vs.Harry Greb......Cinncinati

"I'd say Greb's toughest fight was with Jeff Smith in 1922. And that was the night Greb became blinded in his right eye." "Smith butted him coming out of a clinch and that was it. Greb carried the secret of his one eye to his grave, except for a few persons." from interview with Bernard (Happy) Albacker and Cuddy DeMarco. ***EDITORS NOTE: There is no documentation or sources that backs-up the Jeff Smith fight theory.

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Nov 10--Capt. Bob Roper vs.Harry Greb ......NewYork

Nov 25,1922- While boxing fans were still doing alot of guessing today as to where Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills are eventually to have their battle, Harry Greb, the Pittsburgh flash, came to town with patches over two soar eyes, but full of fight.

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Nov 29, 1922- Harry Greb, Pittsburgh boxer, who holds the American light-heavyweight championship, will not defend his crown against Gene Tunney of Greenswich Village, former holder of the title, in Madison Square on the night of Dec.29. The state Athletic Commision, according to Chairman William Muldoon, has instructed the Garden authorities that Greb will be unable to participate in this or any other scheduled bout before the end of the year, because of the illness of his wife.

The Tunney-Greb contest has not been ordered abandoned, Muldoon explained. It has simply been defered because the commision is eager to give Greb every opportunity to attain his best physical condition before entering the ring in defense of his title. Muldoon said it would be impossible for Greb, with the worry and strain of his wife's illness, to train properly to fit himself for such an important bout and he has, accordingly, instructed the Garden officials to grant Greb the benefit of a delay.

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and

Pittsburgh, PA. Dec 2,-- Harry Greb American light-heavyweight boxing champion was undergoing treatment in a local hospital today. The monarch's eyes, injured in a recent bout with Bob Roper were infected with a cold. His physician said there was no immediate danger of the sight being impaired.

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Dec 19,1922- Whether Harry Greb will be able to keep his contract to meet Jimmy Delaney here January 8 will be known today. This afternoon the doctors treating his ailing lamp will render a verdict as to wether the light-heavyweight champion can take to the ring again and on their decision rests the battle. His eye was cut in his recent fight with Bob Roper.

Greb's cancellation of several bouts recently caused the Drover's Athletic club to become anxious as the date set for this encounter drew nearer until an ultimatum was sent Greb saturday demanding a cash forfeit to guarentee his appearance.

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The Editor's Opinion

It is my opinion that Harry Greb suffered a "retinal tear", the initial cause of his eye problems, in the August 29th 1921 fight with Kid Norfolk but the retinal "detachment" occured over a year later November 10th, 1922 against Capt. Bob Roper. Harry Greb took almost 2 months off after this Capt. Bob Roper fight. He had to cancel his regular boxing schedule. He had to go to his doctor and get his eyes fixed. He was seen with bandages over both eyes. The next fight he took was against the same man, Capt. Bob Roper on Jan 1st of the next year when Roper kept gouging Greb's eyes in that fight too.

In my opinion the trauma to Greb's eye in the Roper fight aggrivated the "retinal tear" to the point of detachment. This retinal detachment would have been either a Rhegmatogenous or Tractional Detachment (see descriptions below). At this point the doctors HAD to work on his eyes which is why he was forced to take 2 months off and was seen with bandages over his eyes 2 weeks after the Roper fight. The doctors had to immediately work on fixing the eyes because he immediatly suffered the retina detachment.

Here is what the National Eye Institute, the American Academy of Family Physicians, and others have to say about a retinal tear leading to a detached retina.

"The retina is the light-sensitive layer of tissue that lines the inside of the eye and sends visual messages through the optic nerve to the brain. When the retina detaches, it is lifted or pulled from its normal position. (see diagram below). In some cases there may be small areas of the retina that are torn. These areas, called retinal tears or retinal breaks, can lead to retinal detachment. Retinal tears may occur without symptoms, but often photopsia (luminous rays or light flashes in vision) is noted. When the retina tears, blood and retinal pigment epithelium cells may enter the vitreous cavity and are perceived as floaters (Figure 2c). Patients with symptomatic retinal tears are at high risk of progression to retinal detachment. Trauma precipitates retinal detachment. Retinal detachment may occur weeks, months, or even years after trauma because vitreous contraction is accelerated by inflammatory and blood-borne mediators that access the vitreous cavity at the time of injury."

What are the symptoms of retinal detachment?: Symptoms include a sudden or gradual increase in either the number of floaters, which are little "cobwebs" or specks that float about in your field of vision, and/or light flashes in the eye. Another symptom is the appearance of a curtain over the field of vision. If you suddenly notice spots, floaters and flashes of light, you may be experiencing the warning signs of retinal detachment. Your vision might become blurry, or you might have poor vision. Another sign is seeing a shadow or a curtain coming down from the top of the eye or across from the side. These signs can occur gradually as the retina pulls away from the supportive tissue, or they may occur suddenly if the retina detaches immediately.There is no pain associated with retinal detachment.

 

 

What are the different types of retinal detachment? There are three different types of retinal detachment:

***Rhegmatogenous [reg-ma-TAH-jenous] -- A tear or break in the retina allows fluid to get under the retina and separate it from the retinal pigment epithelium (RPE), the pigmented cell layer that nourishes the retina. These types of retinal detachments are the most common.

***Tractional -- Tractional retinal detachment, occurs via centripetal mechanical forces on the retina, usually mediated by fibrotic tissue resulting from previous hemorrhage, injury, surgery, infection, or inflammation. In this type of detachment, scar tissue on the retina's surface contracts and causes the retina to separate from the RPE.

Exudative -- Frequently caused by retinal diseases, including inflammatory disorders and injury/trauma to the eye. In this type, fluid leaks into the area underneath the retina, but there are no tears or breaks in the retina.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some of the medical sources. Each has a website you can go to.

American Academy of Family Physicians

 

 


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